In this episode, Deya Aliaga Kuhnle from Digital Business Manager Bootcamp shares her experience with YouTube, how she built a system to publish two videos a week consistently, how she learned to be more comfortable on camera, and how she’s been building out a flywheel of content that is helping her grow her brand and business.
Digital Business Manager, or DBM, is a program to train people on how to help business owners and entrepreneurs more efficiently operate their businesses.
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[00:00:00] Deya: In August, basically, I told myself I wanted to stick with YouTube for one year and publish between 50 to 100 videos in that year. So that’s either 2 videos a week or 1 video a week. Um, and I told myself I would not overthink. I wouldn’t doubt anything. I wouldn’t strive for perfection. I would just prioritize getting the videos out and making sure they were as good as they could be based on my situation at the time.
[00:00:24] Joey: Welcome to Behind the Upload. In this podcast, I chat with entrepreneurs and creators that are doing awesome things with video to grow their brand and extract tips and tactics that you can use yourself. I am Joey Daoud, video producer, founder of New Territory Media, and your host. In this episode, I chat with Deya from Digital Business Manager Bootcamp. Digital Business Manager, or DBM, is a program to train people on how to help business owners and entrepreneurs more efficiently operate their business. Deya also has a YouTube channel which ties into this, focusing on entrepreneurship, freelancing, and digital business management. In this episode, we’ll talk about Deya’s YouTube journey, how she built out an efficient system to publish 2 videos a week, how she learned to be more comfortable on camera, and how she’s been building out a flywheel of content that is helping her grow her brand and business. For all the show notes, links, and transcript, head over to behindtheupload.com. Now, enjoy my chat with Deya.
Well, cool. Hey, Deya.
[00:01:24] Deya: Hey.
[00:01:24] Joey: Thanks for joining me.
[00:01:25] Deya: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:26] Joey: I appreciate it. I guess maybe some background context. We’re in a business mastermind group together. So we’ve been talking about some of this stuff before.
[00:01:36] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:01:36] Joey: But I think what you’re doing with YouTube is really interesting. And so, um, yeah, I’m so glad that you could join, and we can talk about YouTube stuff.
[00:01:43] Deya: Yeah. Thanks. I’m excited. Right now, I’m like deep in YouTube, so I’m excited to talk about it as well.
[00:01:47] Joey: Okay. So maybe it’s like a YouTube therapy session.
[00:01:47] Deya: Uh, yeah, exactly.
[00:01:53] Joey: So sort of — some of like background info. Just tell me about your story, yourself, and DBM.
[00:02:00] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of I think probably a familiar story for many people who have their own business. But, you know, um, yeah, straight out of the university, I had done everything I think I was supposed to. You know, straight As, honor roll, anxiety about university. I was doing a 6-month internship at a Big Four consulting company when I came to this, like, terrifying realization like I can’t do this. And I remember thinking, how is everyone else doing this? I mean, doing this for the next like 40, 50 years of their life, like, I couldn’t even do it for the next 40 days. Super exhausted, bored, unfulfilled. I was thinking, you know, there has to be something else, like there has to be an alternative. So I called up my best friend, Google, and I was like, what else can I do? I found freelancing. And I was like, I don’t know, let’s check it out. I don’t know if it’s financially sustainable. But somehow by magic and hard work, it ended up working out. So I started freelancing full-time, um, started in project and content management. Then I moved into this role of being a digital business manager, where I was essentially helping CEOs and small digital business owners, mostly at the 6 and 7-figure mark, with managing their businesses, the day-to-day operations, all the projects, ensuring things went as planned, that things actually happened. Um, the team, making sure they had everything they needed to succeed. And ops, so creating the processes and systems so that everything was well-oiled in the back end, um, and that they were capable to scale. Um, and after 4 to 5 years of doing that, I began secretly creating an online course that teach others how to do this role, you know, um, how to be a digital business manager. And I launched that course in business in 2020. And running that business has been what I’ve been doing since. That’s the long story long.
[00:03:46] Joey: Uh, yeah. Where did you get the idea to sort of turn your — because, basically, you’re turning this stuff into a course, you’re kind of turning your skillsets that you’re billing, however, per project or hourly or daily —
[00:04:00] Deya: Right.
[00:04:00] Joey: Or something that’s — that ends up being finite until like, okay, now you’re going to turn that into a course.
[00:04:05] Deya: Yeah.
[00:04:06] Joey: How did you develop that idea?
[00:04:07] Deya: Yeah. Good question. Actually, most of the clients I was supporting, like, I started niching into online course creators that I was supporting. So I was getting really the front row seat to how it all works behind the scenes, how you like build the course up. I was like helping project plan the building of the courses, the curriculum, the — how do you start a community for the course, how do you sell this course, how do you create this repeatable system to support the course and the students and everything. So I was really — I feel like getting, yeah, a good insight and learning on somebody else’s dime almost of like all the do’s and don’ts. And then, slowly, I started thinking, you know, is freelancing realistic for me long term? What do I want my life to look like in 5 years? Potentially, I should create a backup plan in case, you know, I’m burnt out or something like that. And then I started being like, hmm, I feel like it was always in the back of my mind a little bit, but I was always too afraid to do my own thing. Um, but I did get a lot of questions from like clients that wanted to hire me. And I was fully booked. So I was like, “I’m sorry. I don’t know. I can’t help you.” And they’d be like, “Do you know anybody else who does what you do and the way that you do it?” And I was like, “I don’t know, like, I’d have to go dig for somebody and everything.” And then on the other side, I was getting a lot of junior people working online being like, “Deya, how do I learn to do what you do? Do you have any trainings or anything like that?” And I would just go on calls with them and talk to them about what I did and everything. And I was like, there’s got to be a way to make this more efficient for everybody, and started creating the course. Yeah.
[00:05:38] Joey: Yeah. I feel like for you, that’s just like, “I need to figure out a system to train people.”
[00:05:42] Deya: Yeah.
[00:05:42] Joey: “And I get to charge for my system, which is a course.”
[00:05:45] Deya: Yeah. I mean, systems is like my jam. I’m always thinking. I think it comes from like a very deep laziness of like, there has to be an easier way to do this. There has to be. I’m going to figure it out so that I don’t have to do this forever. Um, but, yeah, love it.
[00:05:59] Joey: Yeah. I was, um, I’m really into life hacking when it became like a thing —
[00:06:03] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:06:03] Joey: In like the mid-2000s. And — but it was funny because it was like, yeah, it wasn’t really about being efficient. It’s just because I’m just lazy, and I just want to do stuff quicker.
[00:06:11] Deya: Yeah. Exactly. And nothing wrong with that either.
[00:06:14] Joey: So is the main — building out that course, was that your first foray into video? Or had you done video stuff before?
[00:06:22] Deya: Um, good question. I’ve dabbled. I’ve always been very interested in video. I — when I was in high school, I was really into photography, very into videography. I did courses about it as well, but like only films, like very hobby-ish videos. Um, and I had always had this like secret dream. I feel like most people who grew up with YouTube have this secret dream of like I want to be a YouTuber, you know. And over time, I told myself, that was not realistic, and you should like go and do normal stuff. And I actually did start a YouTube channel way back when. And then some of my friends found it at university, and I was so embarrassed that I deleted the whole channel and all the videos on it, which is so sad to me now to look back on. It’s really shown how much I’ve grown like mindset-wise. But, um, so like I’ve dabbled in it a lot but never felt brave enough to take it seriously, if that makes sense.
[00:07:11] Joey: Yeah. Um, and I mean, you mentioned the mindset thing. But what was, uh — yeah, we could talk about that now. But like what kind of shifted? Or what was — what were you feeling before? And then how did that — how are you feeling now? And I guess this does this tie in to like being on camera and just kind of presenting yourself?
[00:07:29] Deya: Yeah. 100%. Like, I think I don’t — maybe it’s like this for everybody, but I feel like being on camera for me is a very big mental — there’s like a barrier. Like there’s a lot of friction for me to work up the energy to sit down in front of a camera, because I think it’s stem — like I was thinking about why it’s such a big deal for me. I think it stems from like perfectionism for sure. Like I’m already such a perfectionist about content, about making sure I’m not wasting people’s time of like delivering value in the best way possible, succinct, concise editing, everything. So like the content itself is already such a big thing I want to make perfect. And then when you’re sitting in front of the camera, you have to make yourself perfect, which is so unrealistic because like nobody’s perfect. So I’m thinking like, I need to make sure my personality is perfect. I need to make sure the way I’m coming across is perfect. My energy needs to be perfect. I need to look perfect. And all these things like kind of feel like unravel into this horrific thing in my head that was like, it’s too much resistance. Um, and that was the biggest struggle for me. Yeah, for sure. Camera. Energy drain.
[00:08:33] Joey: Uh, how do you feel like you overcame that?
[00:08:35] Deya: Yeah. I think it’s just doing it and realizing it’s really not that serious. Like people are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. We have the spotlight effect. Like, and then I started thinking, have I ever thought, like, have I ever watched somebody’s YouTube video and thought, wow, her hair doesn’t look so perfect, or she’s not really coming across perfectly? Or why is she doing that? Or like never in my life I have thought that, you know. And like, if I’m not thinking about that about anybody else, why would they — unless they’re super bored, why would they come and think that about me? And like, am I really going to let that keep me from doing something in my gut I knew was the right thing to do, and I knew it was the right move for my business, and personally, to have this like video outlet and to build essentially a brand that has more of a face-to-face connection with people who want to get to know me and everything? And I just came to this point of no return where I was like, okay enough, like that stuff it’s so irrelevant. It does not matter. Make this commitment, and we’re just going to try it out for one year. And then we can decide after that one year if you want to continue. And that commitment is what got me to start back in August.
[00:09:41] Joey: Mmm hmm. Yeah. It sounds like you set a higher goal or like a mission. You have a mission of putting this stuff out there and then it’s like, well, in order to follow through on that mission, you have to be on camera. So like that’s what you got to do.
[00:09:54] Deya: Yeah exactly.
[00:09:55] Joey: Is that kind of like an accurate metric?
[00:09:58] Deya: For sure.
[00:09:59] Joey: Yeah.
[00:09:59] Deya: For sure. It’s just like you got to — you got to do the things for sure. And I think that commitment helped me the most because once I made that commitment, I kind of locked myself in. And I was like — it allowed me to stop overthinking.
[00:10:09] Joey: Mmm hmm.
[00:10:10] Deya: Because I was like, you’ve made the commitment. You’re not even going to think about like doubting. You’re not going to overthink about quitting. You’re not going to think about — you’re just going to do it. And then we’ll see. Like one year is really not that long in the grand scheme of your life, you know?
[00:10:23] Joey: Yeah. So tell me about the commitment that you made. The — what is the commitment?
[00:10:26] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. In August, basically, I told myself I wanted to stick with YouTube for one year and publish between 50 to 100 videos in that year. So that’s either 2 videos a week or 1 video a week. Um, and I told myself I would not overthink. I wouldn’t doubt anything. I wouldn’t strive for perfection. I would just prioritize getting the videos out and making sure they were as good as they could be based on my situation at the time. Um, like as I was gaining resources and like money and could invest in people and stuff like that, like, whatever my situation was at that time, I was just doing the best that I could. Um, and that was good enough. And, uh, yeah, and that really helped me because I was like, okay, I’m not even going to think about all these other things anymore. Like all the mindset, voices, and everything, they’re so — I just had to quiet them all down and be like, we’re just doing this for one year, it’s an experiment. You know, businesses is an experiment anyway. And, yeah, worked really well.
[00:11:20] Joey: Did you have any other, um, goal? Uh, anything else around that? Or was it just like publish 50 or 100 videos?
[00:11:26] Deya: Yeah.
[00:11:27] Joey: Like hit publish. Make sure I hit that.
[00:11:29] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it’s interesting because when I first started, I think I wanted to set goals. I’m always somebody who wants to set goals, but I didn’t want to set like I feel like the traditional goals that people normally associate YouTube with, you know, like subscriber count, views, maybe like watch hours to get monetized or something. I was very hesitant to set goals on that because I knew if I set those goals, I would drive myself crazy checking those things in the beginning, which is really when it does not matter and you shouldn’t be checking those things in the beginning because the results are so lagging, you know. Um, and so I set goals around how many videos I outputted, how proud I am of the value and the content. Um, how many nice comments and the substance of the comments we were getting from people of whether the videos were helpful or not, and how much fun and like joy I could get out of the process. And those were the things that I chose to focus on. And I think that’s — uh, that made a huge difference because I’m very like eye on the prize. So knowing that those are the prizes and those are my success factors I think made it work longer term. And, um, yeah just — I just know if I had over-focused on subscribers or view count, things that I think are way less in my control, it would have made the process a lot more difficult. Um, and when I can just focus on the things that are within my control, how many videos, how good they are, then, you know, it’s just easier.
[00:12:54] Joey: Yeah, for sure. Um, when you started making the videos or, I mean, even the videos today, like what are the videos about? And how did you decide what to make videos about?
[00:13:07] Deya: Yeah. So we have 3 pillars. That’s freelancing, digital business management, and general entrepreneurship. Digital business management, because it’s the most obvious one needs to be directly tied to our business. We want it to generate an ROI of some kind of eventually. Freelancing because I think digital — DBM stuff, I’m just going to abbreviate it so it’s faster. DBM stuff is not very high search volume. It’s very specific, and somebody has to Google for it. And I don’t think — or YouTube for it. And I don’t think many people are doing that. So I thought freelancing would be a good idea because it’s complimentary to being a DBM. Because if you’re a DBM, most of the time, you work as a freelancer or a contractor. So I figured the strategy or the thought process there was, if somebody is curious about freelancing, they will come to the videos, watch and learn about how to be a freelancer, and then they’re like, “What skillset can I offer?” And then, “Ooh, what does Deya do? Oh, a DBM. Let me learn more about that.” Or they’re like, “I want to be a DBM. But this freelancing thing is a huge hurdle for me because for a lot of people who’ve been working at a 9-to-5 employee role, being a freelancer is a huge leap.” Then I have that supporting content to be like, here’s how you invoice clients, here’s how you raise your rates, here’s how you find clients, that kind of stuff. So that was the thought process behind that pillar. And then entrepreneurship. I wanted something for myself, um, because that’s the stage that I feel I’m at right now. And that’s the content that I find very interesting personally. And I just wanted to make sure I had something in there that was supporting my interest, um, in making videos, too. Not that I’m — I’m not interested in the other things. But this is like, really, I think my current stage in my business. Yeah.
[00:14:44] Joey: Yeah. I guess also something for you to like explore and then share what you’re —
[00:14:48] Deya: Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:48] Joey: Finding. As you started putting stuff out. Have you found things that popped up like, “Oh, people resonated more with this and I didn’t expect it.” Or like, I know — I think one of your videos about Notion is one of your more popular videos. Did you find like, oh, mentioning specific product, specific tool names, like people find that more easily? Uh, yeah, what kind of stuff did you find out?
[00:15:10] Deya: For sure. Yeah. Notion, I knew Notion would be popular because just Notion is so trendy right now. So I was like, okay, let me see how I can tie Notion to one of my pillars. So it’s like a freelance weekly plan using Notion. Um, and then that did really well. And then we did another Notion video and another Notion video. I think we did 3 total. Um, so yeah, tools are really good. We also have a video on Dubsado that I think I like Googled it and I’m pretty sure it’s on the first page of Google for that Dubsado like onboarding keyword. So I think that’s quite good, too, because it’s a very specific keyword. So I think like it has more longevity as well. Like that’s something we definitely focused on is the longevity of the videos over time and not kind of going for, um, trendy stuff or super viral going stuff. We were more focused on what are people going to Google for the next 3 to 5 years on the topic of freelancing, um, what are some of those big keywords we can try to hit. Uh, so yeah, that has stayed roughly the same, but now we’ve kind of pivoted more to focusing double-downing basically on freelancing keywords specifically. Because I really want to build something very robust that if somebody has any questions about freelancing, this channel is the one they should go to, and they can learn everything that they want to know about freelancing. Um, and then from there go wherever is the best fit for their path.
[00:16:28] Joey: Yeah. Have you been doing any, uh, keyword research? Or any kind of more specific like metric stuff research, as far as just kind of figuring out like, “Oh, I’m going to make the video specifically about this keyword because I see this keyword is ranking high or has a lot of research volume.”
[00:16:44] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. A little. Like we definitely do — I would say half of it is keyword research. Half of it is like gut feeling, gut check, knowing my audience, what they’re asking me questions about and stuff. Um, so we use like TubeBuddy. We do like — we check the keywords in Google. We check the keywords in YouTube. We check what other popular videos there are and kind of see what’s going on with them. Um, if they’re doing well, if YouTube is recommending them, that kind of stuff. And then aside from that, a lot of it is — because I feel like — I feel like TubeBuddy is great, but I don’t feel sometimes the keyword stuff is 100% accurate. Um, so I think like, yeah, the human component needs to come into play because like I — and after that, like after the gut feeling, it’s just like checking analytics, tweaking, optimizing. Um, that also obviously plays a role, too.
[00:17:37] Joey: Yeah. I don’t trust any of them. I think they’re a good gauge. They’re just like, “Oh, should I kind of go in this direction?” But their numbers I’m like, “I don’t know.”
[00:17:45] Deya: Yeah.
[00:17:46] Joey: Especially when I compare TubeBuddy and vidIQ, and they are like the same keyword. And it’s be like, “Yeah, great one.” The other one would be like, “Nope, terrible.” And I’m like, “Okay, whatever.”
[00:17:53] Deya: You’re like, “Okay. Great. Thanks.”
[00:17:55] Joey: Yeah. Uh, I don’t know if you’ve looked into this, but they — YouTube just released, uh, like a research tab on their backend on analytics, where you can —
[00:18:04] Deya: No, I don’t know.
[00:18:05] Joey: You can see keywords that your specific audience searches for. And then it’ll also show, um, if there’s like if they — if there’s like a lack in content.
[00:18:17] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:18:17] Joey: There’s like a filter where you can show like content gaps. Like people are searching for this keyword, and we don’t have a lot of videos about that.
[00:18:25] Deya: Oh, I love that. I’m going to check that out.
[00:18:29] Joey: I’m guessing you haven’t looked at that. Yeah, you should check it out.
[00:18:32] Deya: No.
[00:18:32] Joey: Okay, cool. But I was curious — yeah.
[00:18:32] Deya: Thank you.
[00:18:32] Joey: Because I’ve been — that came out a few weeks ago. And, um, I didn’t find useful stuff on my channel, but I’m curious if other people have found, um, useful stuff. Um, okay.
[00:18:42] Deya: I’ll take a look.
[00:18:42] Joey: There you go. So when you started the channel 9 months ago and you started making the videos, what were the — what was the early process like as far as like what you were doing, like roles that you were doing for the videos and how the videos came to be?
[00:18:55] Deya: Yeah. I knew immediately that to start just like knowing how I work and everything that I would want a system in place that would make things streamlined so that — I’m somebody who like if I don’t have clarity over the system or things feel chaotic, I can’t begin. Like I need — I’m like a planner, very Type A and everything. So I was like I need to have a system in place of how this is going to work, how this is going to be sustainable, especially if we want to create 2 videos a week because I’m still scripting 2 videos and filming 2 videos every single week. Um, and I knew immediately that I needed to let go of video editing. And video editing, I actually personally really enjoy, and I find a lot of joy in like editing my own videos and being really creative. But I knew that it would be the biggest time suck ever because, first of all, editing videos, you know, it’s like, it takes forever. Like it is always 2 times, 3 times, 4 times as long as you think it’s going to take. And like if you’re a perfectionist about it, it’s never going to be done, you know. And I just knew I could not pump out content if I was editing the videos. So I was like I need to let this go and give it to somebody else. So that was very important to me, finding a video editor, creating a system of like ideas generation, then outline, then script. Uh, and it was a lot of experimentation in the beginning. In the early processes, we were making a lot of weird — it was kind of bumpy because I was getting a lot of conflicting information from a lot of people. You know, some people told me like, “Write a full script.” Some people told me like, “Just do bullet points.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll just do bullet points because that’s obviously easier.” And I can just talk like I — I like talking and stuff so. Um, I would do an outline. And then the filming would take hours, like hours, like the sun would go down in the meantime, the battery would drain. I would be so annoyed. And you could tell that I was so annoyed because it was taking so long because I kept forgetting things, and I would like have to check the thing and go back. So, like I made a lot of mistakes there. And I think that’s just part of it. And then like figuring out what is the — what are the bottlenecks, what’s the friction in this process, and then optimizing it, and just making it work for how you work. Um, and so we’ve kind of plugged a lot of those holes. And now, there’s a lot less friction than when we first began for sure. Yeah. That was a nightmare.
[00:21:13] Joey: Um, I know — so now, you do full scripts, right?
[00:21:17] Deya: Full scripts. Like literally not even —
[00:21:19] Joey: And a teleprompter.
[00:21:19] Deya: Yeah, exactly. Like it’s even beyond full script. It’s like if you imagine a script, I like, I write the script, then I go through, and I will verbally read out the script, and I will write in every single — like even like things like, um, yeah, anyway, so. Like those things I’ll write into it so that when I read it, I can literally read it word for word and it doesn’t sound robotic, you know? So that it sounds conversational. Um, there’s a lot of things that we’ve done now to work with the teleprompter because also the teleprompter was an early thing where I was like, perfect, now filming is going to be so fast. And I would read it like, “Anyway, the next day I…” you know, and I was like that — I can’t do that, you know. Like it’s so obvious. It’s so not personable. And then I had to tweak that system of like, how can I use the teleprompter but still make it look like I’m a real human being? So yeah, a lot of mistakes.
[00:22:12] Joey: So you script in the filler words to make yourself sound more natural.
[00:22:18] Deya: Everything. Yeah. I put in filler words. I put in dumb jokes. Like when I, um, read the script, sometimes I make jokes in my head of like, oh, that’s stupid, or like I mispronounced something, I’ll write that same thing into the script.
[00:22:33] Joey: Whatever works. You got — you got the system figured out. And did you find that —
[00:22:37] Deya: Yeah, it works for me.
[00:22:39] Joey: Front-loading. Because now you’re spending like so much time on the script —
[00:22:42] Deya: Yes.
[00:22:42] Joey: And front-loading it. But did you — have you found like, okay, even spending more time on the script has saved a lot more time in editing?
[00:22:51] Deya: Oh my gosh. Yes. My poor editor. I can’t like — I feel so bad for her in the beginning times when it would just be absolute chaos. But more importantly, it saves me so much, well, first time, but mental energy while filming. Because I realized very quickly, filming is the biggest bottleneck for me. It’s the biggest friction point. If it’s difficult, it’s already difficult on its own. If I make it any more difficult, I will just like — just not — this is not going to happen. So I was like, I’d rather front-load, make everything perfect for filming Deya, so that filming Deya does not have a mental breakdown. She just sits down, she knows, she gets it done, and that’s it. Rather than like, on filming day being like, “Okay, I’m going to just look at this bullet point list. And I’m just going to talk about hopefully some things come to mind and I talk about what I meant to talk about. Um, and then — yeah, no, that was chaotic. Yeah. So front-loading the stuff really has worked very wondrous for me.
[00:23:46] Joey: What other things have you found that helps, um, free up the mental stress of filming?
[00:23:51] Deya: Yeah. Um, a lot of stuff. Uh, definitely like managing my energy and my mood. Like, I need to get myself into the headspace of like, you’re going to film, you need to be like the most friendly, extroverted version you can muster up of yourself. Um, I also always tell, like, if there are people around, I tell them like, “Don’t say anything while I’m filming because you’re going to derail me completely.” If you say anything, that’s like even if it’s just a comment like, “Oh, that was a weird thing to say.” I’m like I have to stop everything because filming takes so much drain out of me that like if I get any input, it just throws me off completely. And I have to like take an hour to like calm down and everything. So like that definitely is good, like just managing the environment and making sure the environment is conducive to filming good videos. Um, yeah, having the script, definitely the biggest thing. What else?
[00:24:50] Joey: What about your setup? Have you figured — have you kind of like figured out like, uh, I don’t know if you leave your stuff set up —
[00:24:55] Deya: Yeah.
[00:24:55] Joey: Or if it’s like — just kind of like stuff’s already ready to go. Is that — or you know the setup.
[00:25:01] Deya: Yeah, it’s mostly ready to go. Also, I finally found an area in my room, an area in our living space that is the exact angle, lighting, everything I want. And now, I just use that one. I used to switch things up all the time, and I would never be happy. It would be a huge stress to set everything up in a new place, test them, like go back and forth between the camera and like make sure it looks good. So that definitely helps as well. Um, yeah, definitely. Like having the actual setup ready to go is very, very key. Uh, it saves a lot of time and mental distress.
[00:25:33] Joey: And then how has, um, sort of structuring your video evolved? Or like what things have you found work? Like I know in the intros of your videos, you’re like, “Hey, your time’s precious. So like feel free to like watch this at two-speed.” And like “Click on the chapter links below to like jump to the part you want.”
[00:25:48] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:25:48] Joey: And so you kind of encourage people to like, you know, “Hey, like skip around or double-time this.”
[00:25:55] Deya: Right.
[00:25:55] Joey: Yeah, are there other things like that that you’ve found that you’re like, oh, that seems to work better, or like people seem to connect with that more if like I do this thing with the structure of the video, like, you know, people stick around longer.
[00:26:07] Deya: Yeah. I, uh, we’re definitely more focused on that now. In the beginning, I was just trying to like just get the videos out. Um, now, we’re definitely more focused. We’re now doing heavy focus on the first 30 to 60 seconds, as well as the thumbnail and title. We’re way more focused on that and just making sure we’re getting to the point fast, we’re diving into the meat of the content. We’re really — like I’m writing like 3 or 4 different hooks, like the intro, and just like rereading them being like which one is going to keep them the most interested. Um, my editor is also spending a lot more time on the first 30 to 60 seconds and making sure the editing is really snappy so that people don’t click away because we want to make sure our retention graph looks better. Um, but yeah, generally structuring content, I only really use 2 structures for YouTube videos. I use how-to step-by-step. So like step 1, step 2, step 3, or I do a listicle like tip 1, tip 2, tip 3. That’s just — and I recommend that to everybody. I think free flow open-ended structures are not just a nightmare for the person watching because people love structure. They like to know where we’re at and what the big picture is and which part of the process we’re in. But it’s also easier for you because free flow is like so overwhelming, right? But if you have a topic and you can break it down into 7 steps or into 7 tips or 7 hacks or whatever, that’s automatically easier because then you’re just writing each section at once instead of this mega monster thing.
[00:27:34] Joey: Right. And then people don’t know where it’s going to go or —
[00:27:36] Deya: Yeah.
[00:27:38] Joey: Where — yeah, what the payoff is.
[00:27:39] Deya: Right.
[00:27:40] Joey: Um, with your, uh, I want to get into scripts. But just real quick, like what’s your gear setup like?
[00:27:48] Deya: Um, I have my teleprompter. I have, um, the Canon G7 X maybe. Let me pull it over. Yeah, the G7 X. So I know it’s a vlogging camera. Um, but I wasn’t sure if I wanted to make a lot of day in the life videos. So I didn’t want to invest like in a bulky — I have a DSLR that also films video. Um, but I just wanted something a little bit more nimble and that I could take it on the go if I wanted. So that’s the first one that I got. I mean, eventually, when I hit certain like success metrics, I’ll upgrade my equipment and everything. Lighting, I still use all natural light. I’ve been on the market contemplating buying good lighting. But now that I found a good angle with like our windows and everything. It’s perfect. So I don’t really need the light, I think. Um, I have a microphone, like a stand microphone, which is pretty good. Um, that’s it, I think. And a tripod.
[00:28:42] Joey: Yeah. Uh, I mean, yeah, I think it’s good. I think I saw in one of your videos where you talked about your setup, and it was like very basic. But like, it gets the job done.
[00:28:47] Deya: Yeah. Super basic. Yeah.
[00:28:48] Joey: It just, you know, lets you crank out the videos.
[00:28:51] Deya: Yeah.
[00:28:51] Joey: So like, it doesn’t need to be complicated.
[00:28:53] Deya: Exactly.
[00:28:54] Joey: Tell me about your — so, I mean, you brought on a scriptwriter. Can you tell me how you found them and sort of how the — how you figured out a working relationship and balancing, like introducing, you know, only stuff that you can talk about, your stories, and your info.
[00:29:07] Deya: Yeah. So I have 2 scriptwriters that I use occasionally. I would say 90% to 95% of the videos I film are written by me. But, um, I think there are advantages to having scriptwriters. It’s just — it’s hard. Like it’s hard with any type of content for other people to learn exactly how your brand voice is, especially with a personal brand. Because with a brand, you can kind of still like make it more general. But with a personal brand, it’s like very specific to you. Um, so I use — I basically divide up my scripts. Like most of my scripts are experience-based. Like, oh, Deya did this and this is what happened. Um, so those things I write myself. Um, and then anything that’s more research-focused or emphasis on research topics. Like for example, you know, Asana vs. ClickUp vs. Trello, which one is better. We’re comparing features. Those ones I give to scriptwriters because they can do the first draft, the research, and everything. And then I can go in after and then add my voice. So that’s kind of how I separate it as like research-heavy things, I don’t need to be the one doing that. Um, that’s what I give to scriptwriters.
[00:30:10] Joey: Okay, well, so kind of the technical stuff or the stuff that like —
[00:30:12] Deya: Yeah.
[00:30:13] Joey: Someone could go out and research and —
[00:30:14] Deya: Yeah, exactly. Deya does not have to be involved.
[00:30:20] Joey: Compare the pros and cons.
[00:30:20] Deya: Yeah, exactly.
[00:30:20] Joey: Right. Deya needs to be involved in the stuff of Deya’s day.
[00:30:22] Deya: Yeah, exactly.
[00:30:22] Joey: And then tell me about your editor and how you found your editor.
[00:30:28] Deya: Yeah. So my editor, I feel like — yeah, this tripped me up for a long time and kept me from starting because I knew I didn’t want to start until I had an editor. Um, but I had this very specific vision for how I want my videos edited. And I don’t know if this is just like super picky or pretentious or something, but I was like this is the exact vision I have. And I couldn’t find somebody who edited like that, uh, anywhere on like traditional platforms, like Upwork, Fiverr, um, in communities, like I put out job postings. And I was just like, “Hmm, that’s not really quite what I want.” And I really want my editing to be one of my unique selling propositions for my videos. It’s like part of the brand. It’s part of the vibe that I want people to feel when they watch the videos and everything. And it’s also specific to my target audience. Um, and so I was like I have to find somebody who edits like this. So there are few YouTubers that I’ve been watching that edit in that similar style. So I just went into YouTube and I was like, how to edit, like insert person here, insert the YouTubers that I like their editing style. And I found a bunch of people that made videos about how to edit like those people. Um, and one of them — I like found a bunch of them and, um, I basically just reached out via Instagram, DM, like 10 to 15 of them and was like, “Are you open to freelancing? Do you do freelance work? Um, maybe we could do a trial project. I’m thinking of starting a YouTube channel.” Um, and they got back to me, and I did a trial project with I think 1 or 2 of them. Um, and one of them worked out super well. She is in high school from Poland. She’s amazing. I love her. She has been editing my videos since day one basically. And yeah, so, so grateful to have her because I know we would not be anywhere without such a good editor.
[00:32:11] Joey: Yeah. And, uh, I mean, I just love that technique, too, of just, you know, not kind of putting, kind of the traditional ways, like, yeah, I’ll just put a post out on a job board and then you got to filter through a bunch of like editing reels. And then also just like —
[00:32:23] Deya: Right.
[00:32:23] Joey: I don’t know if that’s the style I’m looking for, but yeah. Just being able to go on YouTube. I mean, also, it’s like if you find — if you’re going on YouTube and then you’re like, well, let me just find someone who’s like likes the platform or are already familiar with the platform and knows how to edit on the platform.
[00:32:36] Deya: Right.
[00:32:37] Joey: Win-win.
[00:32:38] Deya: Right, exactly.
[00:32:39] Joey: And she does your illustrations, too, right? You’re — the sketches.
[00:32:41] Deya: Yeah. She does all of the illustrations on the editing. Yeah.
[00:32:44] Joey: Yeah, that’s awesome. Um, so you’ve, uh, 9 months now that you’ve been, uh, posting videos?
[00:32:57] Deya: Almost 10 months, yeah.
[00:32:57] Joey: 7 months, okay.
[00:32:59] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:32:59] Joey: Uh, so what’s the —
[00:33:00] Deya: 10, sorry. 10.
[00:33:02] Joey: Oh, 10 months. Um, what’s the reaction been, and how’s it been going?
[00:33:07] Deya: It’s been going good. Like, I’m — again, like, I didn’t want to focus on the views or the subscriber count or anything like that. I’ve really been focused on more so the feedback from people who are watching the YouTube videos. Um, and the feedback’s been amazing. Like I thought I was going to get roasted. Like I thought I was going to get like the show’s roasted out of me and everything. But I haven’t received anything negative. I’m sure it will come eventually. I’m like bracing myself for it. But it’s been super nice, like complete strangers writing these like 3 to 4 sentence comments being like, “This is so amazing. This is the best video I’ve seen on this topic.” And like, “Oh, this is such an underrated channel. You should have 100,000 subscribers.” I mean, that is for me the biggest indicator that we’re on the right track. And we should just keep going. It’s very motivating. Um, I didn’t expect it. Uh, so yeah, feeling like really, it keeps me definitely like, okay, there are people watching, they enjoy it. You know, we have to keep going. This is –these are good signals.
[00:34:06] Joey: Yeah, for sure. And I know you’re not buried deep in the analytics. Um, but have you found, uh, people that find you through YouTube are now going through your course, or like kind of — or at least just leading to your website and your material.
[00:34:19] Deya: Yeah, I haven’t — yeah, like you said, I haven’t looked at the analytics too much. But I do know one example of a girl who found me on YouTube, watched a video, and then she bought my course the next day. And she actually messaged me and she was like, “I have never purchased something so fast before, and I had no idea who you were 2days ago.” And I was like, wow. It really goes to show how much trust video builds compared to anything else. Like I’ve never seen somebody buy I think that fast in any other medium. Like there’s no way you can build that kind of trust with like text, with audio. Video is just something else.
[00:34:54] Joey: Yeah, I guess they find your channel and kind of go down a rabbit hole, and then it’s like, “Oh, I feel like I’ve just been watching Deya for like an hour or two, and I know this person.”
[00:35:00] Deya: And I know her.
[00:35:01] Joey: Yeah.
[00:35:01] Deya: Yeah. She’s like a real person. She — I like the way she teaches or I like the way she talks. Like there’s more of this somewhere probably. Let me go find out where the more is. So yeah. I’m very excited.
[00:35:11] Joey: Yeah. That’s awesome. Uh, what are, I know we talked about kind of some things you learned or mistakes made, but what are some other like any like low points or lessons learned things you have improved on?
[00:35:25] Deya: Lessons learned. Yeah, so many. Definitely, the scripting fully out, reducing friction wherever you can. Like every single time anything feels difficult in my YouTube process, I’m thinking, how can I get rid of it? How can I make it easier? How can I do it differently so that this doesn’t suck as bad as it can, um, or as bad as it is? Um, other things that we’ve learned. So many things, I feel like. Um, we have been doing a lot more thumbnail work for sure. Like we have been — we’ve gone back to look at a bunch of our old thumbnails, compared the click-through rates against other things. And now, we’re making new thumbnails for like the lowest click-through rate videos, um, and comparing if the click-through rates are better. And some of them are like doubling in click-through rate because the old thumbnails were — and I kind of had a feeling, you know, they weren’t super readable and all that stuff. But I was like, you know, in the early stages — and I also have to say this, like, if you’re just getting started, you shouldn’t be worrying about all this, like fuss. Like I think you should just get started and like put stuff out. And eventually, you can come back and like analyze and everything. And I think if I had held myself back trying to get everything exactly right in the beginning, I would have never begun. So I’m really glad that I started and made these mistakes. But now I can go back and like, try to fix the mistakes, try to optimize, um, make nicer thumbnails, make nicer — like test different titles and everything. Um, yeah, we’ve also definitely been, like I mentioned, working so much more on title, thumbnail, and the first 30 to 60 seconds. So getting to things faster instead of — in the beginning, I think when I first was making videos, I was more — I want it to set the tone of the video a lot more. And so sometimes I would ramble a little bit on like the goals or like what we’re going to learn and everything. And I think you just need to get into it quickly so that people see what what’s in it for them very fast. So that’s definitely another big lesson learned. Um, yeah, recently I made a big list of things that I’ve learned, so let me pull that up.
[00:37:28] Joey: While you pull that up, what are —
[00:37:29] Deya: See that post in Slack.
[00:37:30] Joey: Some of the things that you’ve —
[00:37:32] Deya: Yeah.
[00:37:34] Joey: Uh, what are some of the things that you’re changing with the thumbnails? Or like what are you like thinking about when you’re designing these new thumbnails that are doubling your click-through rate?
[00:37:43] Deya: First one is definitely readability. Like it just needs to, like, you need to zoom the image all the way out so it’s like this big, like how it is on mobile. And just be like, can I actually read these words? Like do I have to squint. Like people aren’t going to squint, you know. So that’s the first one. And then colors, just making sure the colors are not hard to read again. Also not trying to fit the entire title on there, just like going for 3 to 5 words. And we’ve also, I’m testing this, not repeating the title in the thumbnail. So like if the title is like how to get referrals as a freelancer, we’re not writing referrals as a freelancer on the title. We’re like — we want to try something else or something like that. Um, so we’re potentially going to experiment with that as well. Just so it’s like complimentary one way or another, like the title says what it is, and then the thumbnail like talks about an objection or like does something that would surprise them as controversial, or something like that. Um, so I think that is working well from what we’ve seen at least.
[00:38:42] Joey: Yeah. That’s, um — yeah, and I think the — I’ve been running through that myself. Just like, well, yeah, it’s like the title always displays with the thumbnail. And so if you’re putting the title of the video in the thumbnail, you are repeating the title.
[00:38:54] Deya: Wasting space. Yeah, exactly.
[00:38:55] Joey: Yeah. When you could just be putting something more visual there.
[00:38:58] Deya: Yeah, for sure.
[00:38:58] Joey: Instead a bunch of text.
[00:39:00] Deya: Yeah. Okay. I found my list. So here are a few other things that we’ve learned. Um, I’m also more focused now on structure than ever before. I’ve always been a very structured person. Like I like it when things are logical and they’re like step 1, step 2, step 3. And I think that is really important when you make YouTube videos, is that you think through how or the flow of the information you’re presenting in a way so that it is not overwhelming, that it is clear, it’s succinct. So I’m always thinking like what question might they have first, what’s next, what’s after that. Like what do they need to understand before I can dive into this? Will they understand this concept if they don’t understand this concept? Um, and so I think structure is really the most foundational thing you have to have in all of your scripts. So that’s really important. Another thing we do now is after writing the final draft, I’ll do another pass-through, and I will drop in personality and anything funny that I can include because at the end of the day, like we still want to be entertaining, not just pure value. Um, so that’s something that I’ve also been working and thinking a lot about, is like how do we make things more personable? Like because I so tend to veer into I want to give value, I don’t want to waste people’s time so I better just like give them the information. But at the end of the day, like you don’t want to be an instruction manual because nobody cares about who writes the instruction manual. They just care about the information in the manual. So I don’t want that to be the case for me. I want them to care because it’s me saying the information, not just for the information. So we’re also thinking a lot about, how can we add in personality? How can we add in jokes? How can we add in things in the background? How can we add in like little repeatable things that people can begin to associate with me and my videos, um, and kind of like making little rituals for themselves or something. So that’s something we’re thinking a lot about for sure.
[00:40:47] Joey: How do you think about the jokes or kind of just inserting personality? I mean, is it like inserting like meme cutaways, or like, uh, you know, some channels have like styles of that. Some —
[00:40:58] Deya: Yeah.
[00:40:58] Joey: Kind of like how do you — yeah, how do you think about that?
[00:41:00] Deya: Yeah, I think — well, I love memes, I love gifs. Um, I don’t do them on my channel because I’m not sure what the copyright stuff is related to that. But, um, for me, personally, it’s like I write in things that I would say verbally to my best friend in a conversation, basically. It’s like exactly my personality, but a little — because sometimes, when I’m like — I feel like, for example, on a podcast, I’m a little bit more serious and everything. But in the videos, I don’t want to be super serious. Like I want to be maybe like 80% of my enormous serious level and then like 20% of how I am with my friends, with people I’m super comfortable with, and like cracking jokes and stuff like that. Or being dorky, like that’s fine, too. Or like making bad puns, you know, accidentally messing something up. You know, that’s really important for me to keep in there. So I also tell that to my editor. Like if I mess up, you know, you can edit it in a way that’s funny that makes fun of me. Like I’m fine with that. Um, because I think it’s really important to have that personality in there.
[00:41:59] Joey: Do you think of that — when you mentioned, oh, like, uh, the jokes I would say with my friends, when you read through the script for that pass, do you think of it of like how — if I’m explaining this to my friend, how would I explain this and keep it light-hearted?.
[00:42:13] Deya: Exactly. And that’s why I think reading it out loud is so good because I’ll read the script out loud word for word, um, as if I was explaining the concept to somebody else that is curious about it, as if somebody is asking me like, “How do you get referrals as a freelancer?” I’d be like, “Okay, so here’s how, blah, blah, blah, step 1, we definitely want to do this. Oh, but don’t forget…” You know, like that’s how I read it out loud. And then as I’m reading it out loud, I’ll spot things that I would verbally say that is not in the script. And just — I mean the script sometimes is just kind of dry. The first draft is like just like pure dumping of information. Um, and then you have to make it a little bit more interesting. So that is how I make it. I hope interesting. But I mean, who knows? Maybe it’s still dry.
[00:42:54] Joey: Um, and are you thinking about, um, how people kind of flow through your videos? Like linking, getting people to watch the next video, or tacking that on? So yeah, is that something you think about now?
[00:43:04] Deya: True. Yeah. Yeah, that’s something we’re definitely thinking a lot about now, as well as we want to make things. We want to increase their like session time. Um, we know like YouTube wants to keep people on the platform as long as possible. So as much as you can do that, as much as you do that for them, they will recommend your stuff. Um, so we’re thinking a lot about like how can we make each episode, each video lead to the next one. Kind of like how Netflix is like. You know, if you have a cliffhanger, it leads to the next one, or like it opens a loop and you want to close the loop with the next video. So now, for example, I just recently came out with kind of a — it was supposed to be one video on Upwork, but then I realized, actually, we can make like 6 videos on these different topics. And so we filmed these. And basically, at the end of each video, I am guiding them to the naturally next video they should watch. Like, for example, I’ll start with one video that’s about like how to create a profile on Upwork. And then at the end of that, I’m like, “Now that your profile is all set up. You’re probably wondering what you should — what kind of jobs you should apply for. You should definitely check out this video, where I explained which jobs you should look out for, which jobs you shouldn’t apply for.” And then at the end of that job, I’m like, “Now that you know which jobs to and not to apply for, you’re probably wondering what to write in a proposal. So here’s my proposal template in this next video.” And then after that video, it’s like, “Okay, So you know what to write in proposals, but you definitely don’t want to be making these big job proposal mistakes. So check out this video where we talk about some mistakes.” So like that’s something we’re testing now to see if that leads people into a flow. It’s like a playlist, except you’re opening the loop at the end of that video. And then they can close the loop with the next one. Um, but we don’t have the data yet on that. But I think it makes sense logically to me that that would guide people more to other content.
[00:44:53] Joey: Yeah. And it sounds like you’re kind of thinking of it as like a mini course.
[00:44:57] Deya: Yeah, exactly. And like —
[00:44:58] Joey: Or it’s like an Upwork mini course or built them on playlist.
[00:45:01] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s see. Let’s hope. Let’s hope people treat it like that.
[00:45:05] Joey: Yeah, I think that’s cool. When you were thinking about that or making that, did you batch that? Were you just like, “Hey, we’re going to like, just do a — you know, let’s just like crank out a bunch of scripts on Upwork.” Like we know — like you know the structure and the flows. And then it’s like, are you breaking that up into like, “Okay, we’ll just do a video on this and this and this. And then we’ll script them all and shoot them all.”
[00:45:22] Deya: Yeah. Actually this is another tip that I, um, would definitely would give to somebody else’s. I realize that as I was making videos, I started making bigger and bigger videos. Like in the beginning, I was aiming for like 15 to 20 minutes. And then as we know, it becomes like 20 to 30 minutes of videos because I wanted to pack everything into one place to make it as convenient as possible. So for example, when I came up with the Upwork idea, I was like, this needs to be the ultimate guide to like Upwork. Everything they could possibly need is in this one video. But that’s not beneficial to them. It’s not beneficial to you. And it’s not beneficial to the search engine because people are not — like people are probably looking for more specific keywords nowadays. Um, and so I was like, you know what I’m going to do. I’m just going to like portion this into 6 videos. Like they don’t know, right? And like, instead of aiming for 15 to 20 minutes, I started — I now aim for 10 to 15 minutes per video. Um, because then you also have to script less. Like I used to script 3,000 to 4,000-word scripts. And now, I script like 1,000 to 2,000, ideally less than 1,500. Um, now, it’s like easier for me to script. The videos are shorter. Probably retention is better. People can go through them faster. It’s not as overwhelming for them. It’s just like a win-win for everybody. Um, and that is how I went about the Upwork one as I took the Upwork one. And then I was like, here are the 6 sections I think we need in it. And then we made each section its own video instead of 6 sections of 1 video.
[00:46:44] Joey: Yeah, I think that — yeah, there’s kind of more entry points for people to get into.
[00:46:49] Deya: Yeah. Yeah. And like —
[00:46:51] Joey: Just off of whatever they’re looking for.
[00:46:53] Deya: Exactly. And like, yeah, people could be Googling like Upwork. But like they’re probably not. Like I know when I Google, I’m like how to write Upwork proposal, or like how to, um, send job proposals on Upwork, or how to make a good Upwork profile. Like I’m not just typing how to do Upwork, or how to be good on Upwork, or something like that. Like I think people are getting more intelligent with how they use search engines because there’s so much content out there. So I think it serves you best to be more specific. I’m also like always like whenever I’m working in content, I always tell people you have to be specific because like I think it’s — yeah, it’s just beneficial for everybody if you’re specific about what’s in the content. And in the content itself, you’re actually also specific.
[00:47:38] Joey: Yeah. And if it like speaks to them specifically, and they’re just like, “Oh, this is made for me.”
[00:47:41] Deya: Yeah.
[00:47:41] Joey: Not even like how do I write job proposals in Upwork, but like how do I write graphic design job proposals on Upwork, or web design.
[00:47:48] Deya: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:47:49] Joey: Or like, yeah, so like the problems you have with Upwork, but then also like who the person is and what their role is. And like, yeah, you can get really specific.
[00:47:57] Deya: For sure, for sure.
[00:47:59] Joey: Yeah. Uh, so what’s the — you know, your year is coming up soon with your YouTube experiment. So what are you going to kind of like — what’s your retrospective going to look like? And what’s your, uh, you know, future plans, future goals with the channel.
[00:48:15] Deya: Yeah. I feel like it’s not even at the one-year point. I feel like every week I’m learning something new about YouTube, um, and about myself in the process. Uh, so I feel like we’re just constantly trying to iterate. I do think, once we go into year two, we’ll probably be more focused on optimizing things. In year one. I feel like we were just trying to — it’s like pure survival mode. You’re just trying to get videos out. You’re just trying to be like this kind of, I don’t know if this is good. I don’t know what it is. It might suck. Who cares? Do it, you know. Um, and we were trying our best, too, you know. So like we’re still — we’re just like get it out. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t need to be perfect. Now that we’re entering year two, and I think there’s less friction in the process, I think I can take more time to optimize for one. So that’s something I definitely want to do more and like make better use of the time that we are spending on it. Kind of like front-load the effort. Another thing I want to do is kind of what we talked about. I want to invite more personality to the platform, um, and do more content that is maybe opinion-based. Um, so for example, today, I filmed a video that’s like a book, kind of like business book club, like where I read books and then summarize the biggest takeaways for business people for business books. And it is partially also my opinion of like, this I really like, this is how I applied it in my business, this is what I’d do, this is what I would say if you were a freelancer, and stuff like that. I want to do that where like I interlace the value and my own thoughts and experiences, and stuff like that. Because at the end of the day, I want to build something where people are building trust with me, not with, “Oh, Deya is good at research,” you know. So that’s something I need to — I want to keep my eye on and do way more about Deya mixed in there. Um, and —
[00:50:05] Joey: Like commenting or your thoughts on like other — like things that already exist or like a —
[00:50:09] Deya: Yeah, exactly.
[00:50:10] Joey: Book that exists. But it’s like, “Hey, here’s my takeaway on the book.”
[00:50:12] Deya: Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, not just reporting, you know, like I think that’s the difference.
[00:50:18] Joey: Mmm hmm.
[00:50:18] Deya: It’s like not just reporting on the facts but like commenting and like, “Oh, what, I think that’s kind of stupid,” or like, “I think that’s great,” or “Here’s an example of how I do this in my business,” you know, so that it’s establishing some sort of connection beyond this might be valuable information.
[00:50:34] Joey: Yeah, that reminds me of, um, uh, someone else said on the podcast, uh, Layla from ProcessDriven, who does — it’s kind of similar, um, thing. It’s focused on like teaching people how to use ClickUp.
[00:50:45] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:50:45] Joey: Or like how to build systems for ClickUp. Similar backstory where it was like she was doing consulting, and people were like, “Can you help my system?” And she’s like, “I’m just going to teach you how to do it.”
[00:50:52] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:50:52] Joey: And now it’s a whole course and stuff. Um, but yeah, her channel, because she started off doing like ClickUp tutorials. And then, um, it kind of — her channel kind of went to like another level when she did like a retrospective commenting on ClickUp’s annual conference —
[00:51:08] Deya: Mmm hmm.
[00:51:08] Joey: Where they kind of like release the roadmap and talk about stuff. And then she’s like — did more of like a thought opinion piece on like what she thought about it. And then that like kind of took her to like another level. It’s not just like ClickUp tutorial person, but like ClickUp thought leader, ClickUp —
[00:51:23] Deya: Expert. Yeah, exactly.
[00:51:24] Joey: Process thought leader. Yeah.
[00:51:26] Deya: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:51:26] Joey: Yeah. I think that’s a cool direction. Yeah.
[00:51:28] Deya: Yeah.
[00:51:29] Joey: Uh, well, cool. Is there anything else we didn’t talk about, or you thought about before that we didn’t cover in YouTube or video in general?
[00:51:39] Deya: Yeah. One more thing that we definitely have been doing. This is something I — I just read this in my list of like lessons learned. And I just reminded myself to do this again. But, um, I cut so much more during scripting now than I ever did before. In the beginning, I would want to give them everything that I knew and like dump out my brain on this topic. Um, and I got pretty brutal feedback from somebody who said like, “You repeat yourself too much.” Um, and this was also the case when I first began, and I didn’t have a teleprompter. I would sometimes make my point a few times because I was trying to like make sense of it in my head as well. Um, as I’m scripting now, it can be — like when I read it, if I have already said any version of this sentence, I delete it. Anything that’s not adding anything new to the conversation or interesting or anything, I just cut it super generously. Sometimes, I cut entire paragraphs if they’re not interesting, you know, or helpful in any way. So I think that is another big tip I would give to everybody else’s. Just like be succinct, um, as much as you can. You can obviously ramble in your first draft, but like in the final draft is where I’m like starting to like delete all the stuff that doesn’t absolutely have to be in there.
[00:52:49] Joey: I think that is good writing advice in general.
[00:52:53] Deya: Yeah. For sure, for sure.
[00:52:56] Joey: Uh, yeah, no, that’s great. Yeah, I’ve just, yeah, you got to, what is it, kill your darlings. That’s a writing phrase.
[00:53:02] Deya: Oh, that’s sad yeah.
[00:53:06] Joey: Uh, but in this case, it’s — yeah, they’re not characters. They’re just info about how to do digital business management.
[00:53:13] Deya: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:53:13] Joey: Well, cool, Deya. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
[00:53:13] Deya: Yeah. No worries. It was fun to talk about YouTube.
[00:53:14] Joey: Thanks so much for tuning in. Go follow Deya’s YouTube channel @mynameisDeya. That is also her Instagram handle. And you can find out more about her course at dbmbootcamp.com. We’ll also have all that linked in the show notes at behindtheupload.com. If you made it to this point, then I’m going to assume you liked this episode. So please leave a 5-star review and maybe a comment over on Apple Podcasts. That is the best way to help this podcast grow. Thanks for listening. I’ll catch you in the next episode.